Dearborn After October 7: The Rise of Islamist Activism | Anthony Deegan on FWI Podcast

0:02 Greetings everyone. Uh this is Dexter Vanzy, managing editor of Focus on Western Islamism and this is part of our periodic uh interviews with people who are in the counterlimist community uh who have paid close attention to what's going on uh with Islamist activism in Western democracies. Uh our first interview was with Hannah Balddock who uh has done an awful lot of work to counter and document uh the Islamist activism taking place in uh Tower Hamlet's burrow of London and she's written extensively about that.

0:37 And right now we are online with Anthony Degan, who is uh somebody that's paid very close attention to what's going on in Dearbornne, Michigan, which was the scene of some uh tremendous controversy last week when Jake Lang went to a city council meeting and also protested in the streets of Dearbornne. And there was a tremendous ruckus between Jake Lang supporters and his uh uh his opponents in the the city of Dearbornne. And one of the things that both Anthony and I, uh, Anthony Degan and I want to make perfectly clear is that we're basically opposed to uh, Jake Lang's trouble that he's causing the city of Dearbornne, but at the same time, we want people to get a full understanding of what's happening in that city, and we don't think that the media outlets have actually done a particularly good job of it. Uh so Anthony uh can you talk to people about how you got involved in the whole effort to basically document what's going on with the Islamists in Dearbornne Yeah. So uh pretty natural. I would say

1:40 it's still kind of an organic thing. I'm I'm a native Detroiter. I'm from here. Um was in and out of Dear Warren, you know, pretty much every day of my life as long as I was um here in in Metro Detroit. spent some time in the Middle East but um yeah have a natural uh heart towards reaching uh Muslims you know for Jesus Christ and in doing so you see the other components of the community and and those types of things. So you maybe you're a little bit more aware of them as a a church community because it's actively involved in what you do is trying to outreach to people. But um as far as the sort of the more documenting and observing kind of the political side of it, I started doing that a lot more recently. Um you know, just as the city has grown increasingly more radical, uh not not the least of which is attributable to the mayor, uh but he he's just really a symptom in a lot of ways of this a critical mass really. And um so I would say about the time of

2:46 October 7th is really when it just became the straw that broke the camel's back as far as the radicalism. The the Antifa and the pro Palestine movements have are synonymous. Most time those people are are one and the same. And so a lot of those people were already involved in the defund the police movement back in uh 2020. And so I was I I was opposing that at at places like city council and you know seeing the protest and all the signs that would be put up just documenting those. And then um when October 7th took place, it was almost like the it was almost like a factory that refitted itself for a different cause, but the it's the same people, the same factory.

3:28 And u or at least in our previous conversation, you've said that essentially that a lot of the the BLM protests and the the Antifa stuff, they never really got a lot of but it was the post October 7th stuff that really got things going. Is that Yes. So the way that I would I would describe that is the activism in the city. It was those the those original players merging with the, you know, the pro the pro-Islamic uh the radical side of of uh the city. And so yeah, they took on the pro Palestine cause pretty quickly. And um now, you know, it's pretty much one and the same. But I would say that those are more of like the kids that are doing like the cosplay kind of stuff. And then you got the real hardliners which are the more dangerous ones like the the Antifa type of crowd.

4:20 They'll be the ones that'll oftentimes be the noisiest and just you know almost obnoxious really. But it's the ones that are the hardline jihad supporters that are actually more nuanced and subtle. I think they're a lot less boisterous because they they know like it's actually serious crimes. Even you know with some of the FBI stuff that um had they uncovered recently in Dear One. there are there are legitimate people getting inspiration from terrorist groups uh looking to act on that. My my my role sort of started at that time when um so the the city joined and I don't think that you really had to twist their arm. It was pretty much one and the same. The mayor of the city council they joined that uh pro Palestine really anti-Israel is the better way of saying it. uh and but a movement and um the thing that kind of got me mobilized into re-engaging with the city council would be the BDS boycott, divest and sanction stuff. They said that it was about weapons of war, removing weapons of war from Israel, but really it's just a way

5:23 to punish Israel the only way they they Yeah. One of the things that we documented and focus on in a recent article that I wrote for camera and the Middle East forum was about the whole genocide lie being broadcast in Dearbornne essentially by the politicians and the public officials in the city and you hear the genocide lie uh targeted at Israel on a pretty regular basis at city council meetings. Uh do do you is there who pushes back against that? Does anybody push back against that?

5:56 No. Uh almost nobody. There's very there's very few who do. Um and that's for a number [clears throat] of reasons. One, I think, you know, from the community side from they're just naturally not going to want to do that. There are some people who feel that there's two sides to the story or they they believe in at least some kind of peace with Israel. There are those people. Uh there are um but they're few and far in between. And so when you do get somebody who's just genuinely not a believer in that, it's going to be hard for them to either uh put the put their social capital out there and you know burn up their capital in the community, get ostracized or um you know even worse threaten you know things like that. Um or it's just a timeconuming thing. And so and then from the non-Arab Muslim side, a lot of the people either don't understand the the dynamics and the you know the intricacies. They're like this is something that they don't know anything about. And then the people who

6:58 do a lot of times I I can only speak from my experiences in the Christian community. A lot of times the people in the Christian community see these things full well but they almost feel like they can only they can only do one thing. And so if they they choose the the greater good of reaching people for Christ uh because that is the ultimate goal. I'd rather focus on eternal things than temporary uh worldly passing things. But with that said, I'm I'm a believer that I'm I'm beholden to truth only and I'm I'm going to serve truth wherever I find it. And I'll tell truth uh and if it's inconvenient, it's inconvenient. But a lot of people fear that if they tell the truth about the the the things that are going on in the community and the things that are going on in Islam that they're going to therefore lose their ability to reach out to their uh Muslim neighbors and friends and and uh community members for ministry. So I would say that um for me I'm just going to go to those city council meetings and point out some of that stuff. You know, obviously you had

8:01 um guys like Ted Barham do it as well, a few others, but there's not there's not many because a lot of people just for all those reasons, they say it's just not worth it. Yeah. Okay. Now, you mentioned Ted Barham. Can you explain to our listeners and our viewers how uh the Ted Barham controversy began that started what last se September 2025? And that seems to be the big event that kind of set off everything since then. Yeah, there's usually like about every decade or so there's some kind of major thing that happens that gets uh some national attention. Uh the Ted Barham event, um it was just him simply showing up to city council. You know, Ted's his own his own man. He he he says things a certain way. I know that he went to other city council meetings before.

8:50 We've all gone to other city council meetings before. And usually the mayor's thundering down on on everybody because up until that point he was used to being um completely unchecked. You know, he he ruled the roost with no opposition. And so Ted um the TED controversy started by him simply opposing a street sign named after Osamai, the editor uh and owner of ArabAmerican News, who's a pro Hezbollah and Hamas supporter. I mean, overtly just out there in the open. um how it's not even, you know, a terror watch list thing to be openly supporting terrorists. I don't know. Like this should be a non-issue and they're not only is it an issue, they're naming streets after him. And so he simply said, "Hey, you know, this is like naming this street Hezbollah Boulevard or whatever." And the the mayor just lost it and uh said he wasn't welcome. Um say he's an Islamophobe, a big racist, you know, all the all that.

9:47 So, the mayor wanted to use it as a way to silence him for any kind of opposition to this monopoly that they have on the narrative and on uh the way things go down in the city. And little did he know, you know, it was he he went too far. He overstepped his bounds and that was the one that really created a national controversy. And he actually got in place of that bonafide racists, bonafideed Islamophobes, bonafide Yeah. That was that was the event that basically draw drew Jake Lang to the That is the event that drew Jake Lang to the city. So the mayor brought you know you could say he he spawned his own worst enemy there.

10:26 Yeah. Now one of the things that I want viewers to understand is that when Anthony says that Osama Sablani is a Hezbollah supporter, he's not exaggerating. That's been pretty well documented. You can see that in the the articles that we've published at Focus on Western Islamism. And you know, and I now the thing is is that I've spoken to Ted and I've spoken to you and there seems to be uh not every Muslim believes this type of stuff, but it's it's actually true that not every Muslim in Dearbornne, Michigan supports this type of radicalism. Is is I mean, is that fair to say?

11:04 I would say Hezbollah support in particular is probably much higher than I would have appreciated uh three years ago uh before October 7th. Um, I I think when it comes to topics, you know, it's going to depend on the topic where you get where somebody stands. Are they going to go full Osama bin Laden, full Osama bin Laden on the lowest scale? Maybe they would like to have more rights for Muslims. You know what I mean? Like that's so there's always that nuance and and gradation there. First of all, almost everybody is nice in Dearbornne. So, you know, but nice is a very superficial metric. And so, um, then you get into different things where it's like, okay, um, well, how do you feel about Palestine? Well, I feel that Palestine should be free. That that's going to be the majority of people, um, the vast majority of people in in Dearborn, um, who are Muslim. Um, you know, you get into, do I support Hezbollah? Well, that number is going to go down. Um, do I support I'm in Gazali, you know, going into a um uh a synagogue Jewish school to go kill

12:07 little Jewish kids. Well, that's going to be even even lower. But, you know, there's so there's depending on what the you've been the target of of threats online when you came out against BDS, you've been targeted with hostility. Can you talk to talk to my viewers about There was just two of us that day that opposed it. And again, this was before um the mayor had ever gotten heat checked by anything. So, he was just thundering down on every on the both of us. Um you know, all the speakers in the city council. It was just, you know, hundred or 150 whatever it is. Room full of people just completely angry and ranting and going on about um I mean, some of it were legit concerns, but most of it was just rants. And um uh so after that and I in part because of the mayor's response to us cuz again the mayor's response to Ted was exceptionally brutal that that day but it wasn't irregular. This is the way he he carries himself all the time. And so a lot of people are seeing like even his response to us that day, me and my

13:09 friend, um you know, it's it's almost emboldens them to be like, "Hey, you know, this guy's just a racist or he's just a hater or he's a Zionist." Um and you know, uh we're we're not going to be appreciative of that. So yeah, people felt that I didn't belong there because obviously I'm not Muslim and their opinion it's it's a Muslim city. Um people are saying things like, you know, give us their names. Who are the clans men? October 7th, these nuts and this kind of stuff. And um you know, and that's just the stuff that we saw. I don't know how familiar you are with Instagram or Facebook. A lot of the stuff kind of goes away or gets hidden or deleted. It just depends. Sometimes it's the algorithm that erases it. Sometimes it's a moderator. Sometimes the people who write those comments erase them. So, we try to scoop up a number of them, but I know um you know, you see a bunch of comments and it's like 1,800 comments and you can only read 1,200, you know, that kind of thing. But, uh yeah, they were they were certainly there and it would be consistent with everything I've

14:10 seen online before that with the threats and a little bit after that. But, um then the threats kind of a lot of them stopped abruptly. Now, one of the we both, you know, are contemptuous of Jake Lang and his is is his is aggressive rhetoric. We have no use for it. We think it's anti-American, and I I think we're both clear on that and it's also [clears throat] anti-Christian as well. And, you know, it's just contrary to the teachings of our faith. Um, but the thing is is that um what happened, one of the things that we've spoken about was is that somebody brought a pig's head to Dearbornne, Michigan, what, 15 years ago, and that person, they were exercising their free speech. what happened to that person and do you think the police did the proper Yeah, that was one that I just rolled up naturally. So, again, we do a lot of ministry type of things um as the Christian community, you know, just talk to people, chat with them, and so we were strolling the Arabic festival. They have it every year on Warren Avenue, ironically, which is Osama Sablani Avenue. U so that was the same street, Warren Avenue. Um and these guys from out of town, as typical is, you know,

15:14 most of the troublemakers are from out of town. Um, but they came from somewhere out west. Uh, a whole group of them, maybe like 15. And they were there to denounce Islam. Pretty much the the Jake Lang stick, you know, those same profile. Um, but they brought this li this real dead pig's head on a a pike or whatever, like a biology class or something. And I we walk up to them as the mob is already surrounding. They're they're yelling. I'm seeing stuff being thrown at them. Um, and I see this guy. I see the ring leader holding the his talisman, you know, bleeding profusely from his head. I mean, it was it wasn't a scrape. It was full blood blood, you know, flowing and it wasn't stopping.

15:56 And um so I asked him, "What's going on? What are you doing?" It's like, "Well, you know, they it's it's uh Muslims can't touch pork and so u this will ward them off." And I'm like, you know, how's that working for you? But uh and it didn't it didn't work. It didn't work. um noteworthy thing was the police came up pretty much right after that and they started talking to those guys and they said you got to come with us you're and I I can't remember if they were cuffed or not but they were definitely mandatorily removed. I had started into conversation with this guy like hey you know this isn't the right way to do this. Um, not that you know what the what the crowd was doing was right either, but I was talking with this guy. So, I followed him and so I saw the police talk to him firsthand and his whole group as they were escorted out of the boundaries of the festival that if he came back, he was going to be permanently arrested. Like, he was going to be in big trouble. And so, they didn't. And I I mean, he was like, "No, I just want to come back. I just want" And they were they like uh were extremely forceful with him. I mean, fullon highest level of accountability

17:00 for him. But the mob that assaulted him, I didn't I didn't see not one police officer talk to them, not even ask, "Hey, who did it? Uh, hey, can you guys stop um you know, we're going to check security footage?" Uh, and nothing like they they had no concern like as if this was just the default setting. And I think so many times, especially with the Dearborn Police, and I don't even know if this was necessarily um initially started with an Islamic slant as much as it was police being uh just uh doing whatever was convenient, expeditious, taking out the most compliant group, the easiest way to get the problem to go away. Um and so they know that that angry mob of people, they know that they're that mob is not going to listen to them. So let's just get rid of these guys who are going to be compliant and arrest them instead and make the whole thing go away. But now you are seeing a more you will see a double standard that that that favors um Muslims from the chief of police and from the whole structure that now

18:03 All right. Now you raised that point at the city council meeting. Uh, can you talk to me about the confrontation that you had with the uh at the most recent city council meeting because they were pretty they pushed back pretty significantly on your concerns about Let's call it two-tiered policing and they say no that's not fair. What do you Right. Yeah. So, Mike Serini, council president, it's it's I was just uh talking about this earlier. It was kind of funny that you have a meeting full of Jake Lang, Pastor Lorenzo, you know, all these people coming in to to lambast the city and cause trouble for the most part. And it was uh the council president took exception to my comments more than anything. You know, he's lashing out at me more than those guys, which is uh kind of Yeah, that was interesting. I watched that on YouTube and I want I I want the viewers to know that when you watch the video and we can put this in the links underneath it.

18:55 Uh was is that uh the city council president basically said nothing in response to some of the most hateful things uh that were said about the city and about the Muslims in Dearborn. Let that pass. But when a local resident basically raised concerns about how law enforcement was participating, that was when the council president basically, you know, that was when he intervened. That was So talk to me about that. Yeah, it's uh it's it's pretty crazy. Um I've gone to city council meetings before. Jake Lang has gone to city council meetings before also, so that's uh you know, that's worth saying. But um I think part of it is because Jake Lang is a circus. you know, he's putting on the the act and playing the role of the clown. And I think that they know that for them in some kind of in a roundabout way, he's actually in in a way good for them. I don't think that they want it.

19:51 They don't want Jake Lang to come. They don't want him to say those things, but it almost makes it it puts them in the status of victim. And uh so you know when you get um somebody bringing up legitimate concerns about inner workings of the city and has like reasonable things to say I think it's more of a threat to you know exposing some of the things that are going on and they don't they take exception to it. But we've had a couple of interactions before and I've raised some of these concerns about online threats and so we did have a discussion about this before at city council. Um but yeah, so he my concern was um seeing what I saw with the Jake Lang attack, you know, Jake Lang, it was a short video. I wasn't there. I came shortly after. Um and but when he when he came uh whatever it was two or three weeks ago that prompted the most recent city council protest, he was attacked by multiple people instantly. Like the minute they the guy showed up and got on his megaphone, he wasn't even saying things

20:53 that were particularly bad this time. I mean, he's using vulgarities, but he wasn't necessarily doing he's he's done much worse. Let's put it that way. And um so to elicit that kind of response, nearly everybody that was in earshot of him attacked him or seemed to approve of the attack of him. I mean, you're talking the outskirts of a a massive rally, uh, event, um, celebration or protest, whatever you want to call it, depending on your view. Um, but everybody within earshot attacked him and so one police car came. They set a perimeter around this park. I think there was 40,000 or 30,000 people there that day in and out. Um, they had to have at least 12 to 25 maybe police cars. From the only video I saw, one police car showed up, one officer made one arrest at the time while an entire mob is descending upon Jake Lang beating him. I mean, they're beating him in front of the officer. Like, this is how how little they regard. And that that's

21:54 also based on prior behavior. They know that the police have done nothing. So, why wouldn't you attack him more right in front of them? Because I mean, you know, only a fool would commit a felony in front of a police officer and yet here they are. And so, um, I I pointed that out. I said at the city council meeting, I pointed out that if the roles were reversed, I mean, could you imagine 30 Jake Langs attacked one Muslim man, not only would the community rip those guys apart to death probably and that in that instance, um the police would be every squad car, you know, in that park would be at that parking lot to arrest 30 Jake Langs attacking a Muslim man.

22:34 So, I brought this point up. I also brought up the point about um because they love to make a big the this is one of my um biggest concerns or observations about the perpetuation of a victimhood card that they they like to portray a certain type of narrative. They make a big spectacle of online threats against the Muslim community. And um so one of the most uh one of the starkkest contrasts and this kind of rolls into uh what I was saying before was uh a guy a year prior at the Ashura Festival which is kind of like Arbain um also big event like 40,000 people. A guy just a white guy from you know some whatever workingass neighborhood said somebody should let out a few clips in that crowd. Well they found him immediately. They found him immediately arrested him made a big spectacle. They they, you know, got the mug shot. He's looking, you know, he's sitting there graveling before the judge the next day.

23:28 He look the guy looks shell shocked. Now, again, I don't sympathize with his behavior as a Christian. I find it uh deplorable. I don't know where it all falls in line with the law, but um the point is that that's the one side of it. But the other side when you get the other threats or people saying outright calling for murder in the streets, um this was another point I I brought up at city council, even in that that Jake Lang um march on city council in November of last year, Nick Shirley, he was just asking people questions, doing his thing. A guy rips out of his truck, was about to attack Nick Shirley, and Nick Shirley kind of disarm. He's like, "Hey, you know, you just want to talk." And the guy realized he wasn't Jake Lang. And so he's like, "Oh, I thought you were those guys. I was about to murder you. I was about to shoot you all on my mother. Like I don't like I'm talking murder." This is his like verb.

24:19 This is paraphrase what he said overtly. And the police did nothing. And so I'm bringing up all these things. And so that's when the the council president um you know, he didn't take kindly to it. And so he he pushed back. He always takes the lowest hanging fruit. Obviously, you know, he does have a little bit of law in him. So he's going to take the point that he can most easily attack while ignoring all the other ones. Um so uh and then he doesn't address those things. So he does a lot of gaslighting and redirecting, but um ultimately uh he was contradicting the city's policy of monitoring online threats. They only monitor online threats when it's against Muslims. And not only do they not monitor online threats against non-Muslims, they especially don't monitor online threats when it's done by a Muslim. So, uh, this was the point I'm going to be doing some digging in. I'm going to probably have to do some foyas or whatever, talk to my, uh, some of the people I know in the department, but, um, you know, I don't know of one Muslim person who has been arrested for making an online threat.

25:22 And they've they had to have arrested at least 10 people or more, um, who have made threats against the community. And um just to uh just to tie in the last it was very uh peculiar of the timing. So right after this guy, I think his name's Anthony Young from Garden City who made this thread about the clips at the Ashura Festival. I noticed that after he he got arrested, suddenly all the threats by the Arab Muslim community stopped happening online. And I am not going to ever be convinced that that wasn't some kind of coordinated effort.

25:55 I don't know how. I don't know if they're being moderated out by the people who are running these sites. I don't know if they had somebody in the But one way or another, the word got out. It was like, okay, we can't if we're going to arrest somebody from the other side, we have to make sure that that we are squeaky clean on this score as well. We can't That's it. I really do. All right. Right. Now, one of the things that I've always been concerned about is the role that the the uh interfaith community has played in uh failing to stand up to Islamism here in the United States. Uh there's there are a lot of liberal Christians, I suspect, in in Dearborn, Michigan that want to work very closely to promote interfaith peace. But did do these people ever confront uh like the Islamist messaging that goes out in the nearby area?

26:46 Because for example um a focus on western Islamism. We did a story about uh Imam Elahi who is in charge of the the mosque in Dearbornne Heights, Michigan. And that that mosque itself uh the the uh Islamic House of Wisdom during the most recent uh recent Ashura celebration. They were talking about genocide. Uh and they were basically portraying people in the Trump administration in Israel as essentially the murderers of Ali back at the battle of Carbala. They were placing them in a uh like a position of cosmological evil.

27:24 But I don't think any of the liberal Protestants have ever confronted that or spoken about that. Do do you hear any criticism from from the Christian community saying, "Look, some of these people spout extremism and they need to be Um, I I hear Jeff Epstein and I it triggers me, I have to say. Uh, yeah, definitely don't approve of that guy's behavior either. But it's so ironic that people uh, you know, are are late to the party on that one. It's like, hey, we've been we've been talking about Jeff Epstein for about, you know, ever since it happened. uh you're going to use it as a political cudgle. But um no, the the interfaith community denouncing the bad parts of Islam, no, that's not going to happen.

28:12 The liberal Christians, I don't know how much they actually interact. I I think, you know, like a lot of times the people who are willing to confront uh if you care about truth, you're going to care about truth wherever it is. And if you don't care about truth, it also means that you're going to probably have some superficial relationships. I don't know how engaged they're going to be in the in the community, but if they are, they're certainly not going to call it out. So, yeah, there's nobody there's nobody from like the liberal churches or um the interfaith community that I have ever heard um say anything negative about some of the stuff that's going on.

28:47 I mean, you got even even the things that should be easy um terrorist plots. some some people I think more so from the Muslim community said that we denounce all violence when Iman Gazali went in to attack the synagogue and the school kids tried to murder a bunch of little kids. I think over 150 um only ended up killing himself. But um even that was Israel's fault. They they said well you know Israel did kill his Hezbollah rocket rocket squad brothers.

29:22 Uh so even then you know there so no there's nobody denouncing the things that take place and um it's really interesting that they are willing to denounce the people who denounce the bad stuff but it gets into the hate speech thing that really the only problem is pointing out the problem not the problem. So, all right. I got like two last questions before we wrap up. Is like um what do you think's going to happen next and what do you think should happen? Honestly, I think that [sighs and gasps] I think that probably there's going to be a little bit of uh retreat. Like I said, the mayor was used to thundering down on people. I've seen him um greatly be reduced in his gusto as far as, you know, his aggression. he still does things especially when he's with within the community you know uh whether it be conferences or um speaking with individuals but um from a very public face he's he's taken a lot of steps back so you know there's a little bit of retreat on some of the the radicalism as far as um just what is in the best

30:26 interest of Islam but ultimately I do think that I think that as it stands something else is going to happen 6 months to a year from now and it's going to be reignited right from the place where it stopped. And I do think that somebody eventually is going to get seriously hurt or killed. Um like I said, I'm involved in the Christian community. I put out a prayer blast for this latest round, I really thought the way that people were talking about this latest round, um it was actually going to go from maybe some punches thrown. I mean, Jake Lang could have been killed at any point in time, but it's now true.

31:03 is that is true more than ever. And if not Jake Lang, somebody else that somebody the the the damage is done there. And um so yeah, I thought that people were actually going to get quite violent this time. You even had um some of the Antifa people showing up with guns and obviously the um a lot of the other crowd uh the Jake Line crowd had their guns. Um, as long as the population is there, the demographics are there, the voters are there, the constituency is there, they're going to keep thundering away, going to just keep chiseling away. One Osama Sablani uh Avenue sign at a time, you know, one um BDS sanctioned divestment uh at a time.

31:46 and you know, try to get some Senate seats that somebody's going to run for governor eventually. And what should happen I think is Dearborn has a real opportunity actually to still save itself. I used to tell people I I was saying this at at another point in time I in my opinion Dearborn used to be kind of a model of assimilation or at least in comparison to Europe. We didn't have the problems that Europe had. And um but now you're starting to see this tribalism form. Before dearborn guys would view themselves as just American guys, you know. Yeah. Yeah, they love Lebanon. Yeah, they love Yemen. Yeah, they loved Iraq, but they're American. Some of the guys in the community, they support some terrorism, but we're we're American. We just want to make money and and, you know, have our lives, go to college, and not raise kids, that kind of thing. Um, and so for those people, they need to rest this narrative away from these radicals. Um, so when you have an Iman Gazali go try to kill people, you need to just say he's a terrorist, full stop, and leave it at that, and say it was

32:47 terrible what he did. He did it in the name of, you know, what his beliefs and um when you have an FBI terror plot uh uh broken up, you need to condemn that more viferously. When you have people chanting death to America, really need to like own that. And u more than anything, the double standards and and the victimhood stuff of, you know, again, the two-tiered policing, like that needs to stop where m Muslims need to see m Muslims get arrested. They need to see people come gang busters. The police come gang busters when Jake Lang is assaulted. When people in the community make online threats, they need to see somebody from the Muslim community arrested making a threat. You know, um all kinds of things like that.

33:30 And so they have a chance to to win back the narrative, but I fear that I fear that a minority of radicals are the rudder that is actually steering the the ship in the wrong direction. Do you think uh the mayor should apologize to Ted Barham for what he said? But yeah, I think he should apologize and then some. Um I think that uh so he ran a campaign of unity. Rather than apologizing, he just ran a campaign of unity like we are one Dearborn. Um and this kind of thing. And uh rather than just swallow his pride, say, "Yeah, I got I got heated. Um I shouldn't have said it." And you know, the ironic thing is that they talk about how unified and how we are one. And it's like Jews are terrified of coming to Dearbornne.

34:11 They're absolutely terrified to come to Dearbornne. And you know, you got people um shouting, you know, river to the sea, kaiba yahood, a death chant to to the Jews. Um people uh you know, attacking, you know, uh and and harassing people that uh they believe are Zionists. And that's that's uh the mayor needs to distance himself from those people, apologize. And also um one thing that we didn't talk about, we don't have time anymore, but the hate speech, you know, they want to they want to criminalize hate speech more than actual violence.

34:46 And um so the mayor, not only is he not apologizing, he's actually looking to censor people who are criticizing Islam and in the name of hate speech. So, you know, talking about the violence, talking about the double standards. uh he wants to attribute that or he wants to have that be um be labeled as hate speech and and and be prosecuted. And and he's not the only one. It's everybody. Chief of police, the city council president, most of the city council members, members of the community, everybody feels that this uh that that Jake Lang is um unprotected free speech because he's provoking something that's going to create an inevitable reaction and there's no ownership saying like, "Hey, why is our community so enraged at words?" Yeah. Now, we I've I've seen reports that indicate that that some of the leaders uh like Sablani and the mayor himself have actually condemned chance of death to America. Okay. And that seems and that's obligatory.

35:48 yeah. So, it just depends on the situation. I mean, that one Yeah, like you said, it's obligatory. Um the FBI stuff that was busted up and they don't want to talk about the thing like how many other how many other sleeper cells are there? Nobody's even saying that out loud. Like, hey, you know, um, forget about the tribalism. Forget about what looks good or bad for Islam. Can we actually just say that we need to say this out loud that we're going to be investigating whether or not there are sleeper cells in Dearborn like this, like what was already uncovered? So, yeah. I mean, you I guess credit where credit's due, but like you said, it's obligatory. I don't feel that I don't feel that Osama Simlani and the mayor want America to be destroyed. like 911's all over the place. I I think that would be far too extreme and and not really accurate. But the real thing is that I think that he the mayor almost wants to just kind of meander along and take this radical thing wherever it goes. And if it if it means complete Muslim domination, I you know, I think that's what he would like. Um, now how that the

36:52 means to achieving that would be up for debate, but um, I don't think that, yeah, I don't think that the mayor wants a bunch of, you know, white Americans or or non-Arab Americans, black Americans, Latinos to to die. Um, and I don't think Osama Enlani does either, but I think that they're more than more than willing to turn a blind eye to almost anything that is done in the name of Islam because it might tarnish the the um the glory of of Islam. All right, with that, I want to thank you very much for uh for talking with me and I want to thank our listeners for coming in and watching this video and we will have another interview with people down the road. Uh, just keep keep your eyes and ears peeled. Thank you so much. Thank you.

37:38 Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. All right. Take care. Bye-bye. All right. Bye.