Is Islam Compatible with Western Values? with Ibn Warraq

0:01 Good afternoon and welcome to the Middle East Forums weekly podcast. My name is Lori Regan and on behalf of MEF, I thank you all for joining today and for your continued support of the important work that we do here. This afternoon, I'm very happy to be joined by the brilliant and prolific Iben Warrick, who published his first book, Why I Am Not a Muslim, in 1995, which has been followed with 14 additional books, including his most recent, Churchill's Secular Creed, Empire, Zionism, and Islam's Complicity in the Holocaust. happen to have a copy here which was just released and which I had the opportunity to learn about at a recent book launch at which Iben presented a compelling and important narrative providing an accurate and historical analysis of events and of a great man who changed the world. I wanted to share that Iban War is a pseudonym that he uses in order to protect himself against possible dangerous retaliation and repercussions for his assessments in his work and we should all honor his bravery and continuing to speak honestly about the issues that accompany Islamic infiltration into Western civilization.

1:01 If you have not followed Iben's important work over the years, I encourage you to do so, as his insights have been invaluable as we watch Muslim migration expand throughout the West, leaving the question as to whether Islamic, political, religious, and ideological tenants are compatible with the Judeo-Christian values on which the West was established. I'm going to spend the first part of the podcast discussing these important issues with Iben, and then we'll open the discussion to audience questions. So, if you have one for Iban, please use the Q&A function at the bottom of your screens and I'll do my best to get to as many of your submissions as possible. Today's podcast is being recorded and will be available for future viewing. So, please share the link with those in your networks who you think would be interested in learning more on this very important and timely topic. Welcome, Iban, and thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.

1:46 Thank inviting me. Um so I mean I wanted to start with you explaining a couple you know taking a couple of minutes to explain um a bit of background on yourself and how you've come to the views about which you've written so extensively over the years. Your first book Why I'm not a Muslim was published in 95 and you've been writing on the topic ever since. And also in this context can you share with our audience how you arrived at the conclusion of one of your later books published in 2011 which was entitled Why the West is Best? Yes thank you. Um I I I was born in in 46. So before the partition in in in a area which is a part of India which is still a part of India even after partition in 1947 when the state of Pakistan was created.

2:39 Um but I then my family being being Muslim moved to the newly created uh in in Karachi in in Pakistan. But my father saw no hope, no future in this country. And he he was he was not uh he was very secular-minded and very probably an atheist. And so, but he sent me and I wasn't I wasn't indoctrinated in any way. My my father used to give into social pressure to to conform to to go to the mosque and so on. And so we occasionally went to the mosque on especially on a Friday. Um but and he did send us to Quranic school. We went to a Quranic school in Karach when we must have been seven or eight I forget. Um but we didn't I don't

3:43 remember staying there very long but we just learned how to you know recite the Quran off my heart parts of it. I mean I couldn't I couldn't possibly do the whole Quran. And then I was sent at the age of nine, just over nine to Britain because my father had a great uh respect for British. Although the he he when when he was talking amongst his friends, he had a tendency to mock the mock the British and to to go on about the British Empire and so on in a sort of negative tone, but deep down he had a deep respect for what he himself called um there a a justified a rationalist approach to to to life and

4:47 to education. And he sent us to a prep school in the county of Worersha. So I was there for until 1959. Then I was sent to another um private school misleadingly called a public school um in the British sense. And there I grew up uh um but by by the age of 15 16 I was already and then I read a lot later on on the the biblical criticism that the so-called higher uh criticism of people like uh uh David Frederick Strauss and and others which were were the pioneers of biblical criticism in the 19th century.

5:52 Um so I'd [clears throat] already embibed a lot of rationalist literature including um um Edward Gibbons and and the decline fall of the Roman Empire because he's very critical of Christianity and um but he has a very secular look. He analyzes religions in a secular manner and a rationalist manner and he was probably a secretly a deist. Anyway, so um when it so happened I was working I was receiving a magazine published in Amherst, New York, not not the other one in Massachusetts. This was near Buffalo.

6:42 uh uh called Free Inquiry. Now, Free Inquiry was a the in-house [snorts] journal of the secular humanists of of America. and they had been running a series of um with the title why I am not a followed by several denominations like why I'm not a Mormon, why I'm not a Protestant, why I'm not Jewish, why I'm not a Quaker, you know the former u apostates um who wrote about it, but the the then editor Tim Maragan could not find some somebody to do Islam, why I'm not a And so I they got me to write they invited me to write uh and I wrote an article 1992,

7:47 you can still see it on the archives of free inquiry called why I'm not a Muslim. And then I wrote uh saying would you would you uh would you be interested in publish the l booklength version of the whole thing because Paul Kurtz Dr. Paul Kurtz who was a philosopher he a a publishing house called Prometheus books and he was also the founder of the secular humanists. So I I I I agreed to write a book for them. It eventually came out in 1995 that's it. That's that's how it And um so let's let's go on a little bit. You you write under a pen name and I like to call it a namur because uh I believe that we're in an existential battle for the survival of the west. So

8:50 I'm wondering if you've ever faced any direct threats since 95 when you published that that book. You were brave enough to do so. And what does it say about Islam that you are not free to write under your own name? I mean Salman Rashd faced an almost successful attempt on his life over 33 years after the initial fatwa was issued against him in response to his novel the satanic verses. And actually the Japanese translator of his novel was stabbed to death shortly after its publication. you know, Theo Theo Van Gogh is another uh person who was murdered in Amsterdam in um among other writers and intellects accused of blasphemy by Islamists. So, you know, are the first amendments protections of free speech and freedom of religion anathema to the practice of Islam? And if that's the case, how do you reconcile Western values that include things like equality for all, respect for the rule of law, separation of church and state, for instance, with um you know those whose religious and political views are in conflict with the civilization in which they've chosen to Yeah. The Okay, this is a long question.

9:56 I'll begin at the beginning. Um I have had uh at the beginning when a book first came out of course this was before 911 but it be became a semibella after 911 and that was when the Islamic community woke up a bit and there were several imams uh who after 9/11 in fact who called for for my Um but on one occasion I I signed a declaration along with 11 other people and the whole thing was red was was uh drafted by a French journalist called Karolene Fest still going strong. is in Paris. And once that came out, uh there was an the the Muslim the imams especially the

10:58 mullas were very very angry and they asked for my elimination. But Cavalene being very uh just said you know took them to task to took them to court you know and they they could not they had to take down the fatwa which was uh against the values of the country which we were living in that she was living in in France I was in in the states by then.

11:32 Uh um so the that that reassured me a lot uh but you need only one crazy person to to you know take take aim at you and and there's very little you can do uh unless you learned uh some karate moves or something. Um but uh apart uh on on several occasions I was remember on one occasion for a conference in Buffalo I was walking back I was going to the auditorium where the where the one one of the talks was taking place was a darkish corridor and it's two sort of middle eastern looking people came towards me and they said are you even And I said, "My God, this is it." And but there we want to thank you. You've saved us. We thank you for saving us from Islam. And they were happy that

12:34 I'm, you know, they became us apostates after reading my work. And so I I was quite pleased. That's uh and then I haven't had many any physical intimidation of any kind. And I've never I've given talks at all sorts of places and the the speakers were well protected pro protected. So and I've so many times around the world Sweden, uh Rome and I don't know I've lost count, but I've never had any um any problems. Uh I suppose the the organizers were aware of it but they and they took me you know measures security measures and so on but but is free speech enough to to Islam there is no free speech no you can't there are all sorts of taboos in Islam

13:38 about who what you can say about you can't you can't criticize the prophet Muhammad you can't uh certainly not look have a rational look at the Quran which is which really needs some sort of a critique anyways is a completely u jumbled mass of contradictions that makes no half 20% of it as my friend G point said makes absolutely no sense know you people say read the original Arabic and this doesn't help at all.

14:20 That's where the the problems begin with the Arabic. We don't even know what kind of Arabic it is. It's sort of pre preclassical Arabic and but there's there's no certainly no free speech there. You would you would be had up in se several countries in the Islamic world for blasphemy. And this happens frequently in Pakistan where the poor Christianer, the small minority of Christians are persecuted and people could fabricate a blasphemy case against a Christian very very easily and the mob just took take over and the lynch I don't know how many lynchings there have been of people accused of blasphemy but there it's this blasphemy laws are incredible, very stringent and applied to the letter. So, no, there is no free speech. There's no

15:22 So, so Iben, you've um you were referring to things that have occurred in some Middle Eastern countries, but the um Muslim migration into the West is really fast and furious. Um, you grew up in England. You've lived in France for a long time. And like so many Western European countries, both of these those two have been um infiltrated by large Muslim populations that seemingly have no interest in assimilating with their host countries and rather seek to impose their belief systems on native populations. Um, so you know, free, you know, Theo Van Gogh was murdered on the streets of of Amsterdam. Um, perhaps more importantly, you know, what I mean, what do you believe is the reason that this is happening? What makes civilizations willingly commit suicide in your opinion? And are you surprised at how quickly this is occurring? Um, and I'd love to to have you share with the readers if you think that Western European leaders and citizens have the will and fortitude to save their civilizations or is it too late to to stop what's happening?

16:25 Yeah, it's very disappointing. It is happening much quicker than I expected. But I already in 1995 I had uh tried to warn people who were on the west. Uh but all these nasty things are are taking place now are slowly evolving. But why? Basically this is something built [clears throat] into western civilization and that is uh there's a positive principle a very positive principle which has been responsible for much of a progress uh which marks western civilization from other civilizations and that is the principle self-criticism.

17:12 Now selfc criticism is just impossible in Islam but it does ren take taken to his extreme in the west it can lead to and to uh impossible situations you know there's that famous quote from ro po poet Robert Frost who said you know let me get this right a man a liberal is a man too broad broad broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel that's sort of that that is suicide in other words people and nobody wants to why would anybody want to integrate into a sinking ship you know the we've been told over and over and over again by ideologues like Edward say and so on that the west is wicked, the west is the

18:16 source of all evil. Uh so this this this arises from a positive principle principle of self-criticism. But uh this this has gone to the other extreme and denying denying real facts, real history, real uh you can't deny that most of the uh progress in in in the world of the last 100 years have come from uh western western doctors, western scientists and so on. This is absurd to deny that but people do people forget and and the internet is full of nonsense. For subject of my book on on Churchill um which came out in in July. Uh it's it doesn't it doesn't hold up. I

19:21 show the the nonsense of this the theories that that are circulating like wildfire, you know, in on the internet Um so yes um I I don't know what other sociological reasons are. I have no idea really. Um but as [clears throat] as I think it was Arnold Toinby who said yes, civilizations don't die, they commit suicide. So it's uh it's people have no longer will they don't have the knowledge to defend one's virtues, one's own principles, one's own history and culture. He said Emanuel MP in France says there's no such thing as French culture. I mean how can you defend it when you don't think there is such a thing? It's mad. is complete madness. Uh the same thing in Britain. Britain is is just overwhelmed.

20:24 I don't know what's going to happen there. Do you have any thoughts on the US? The US? Yeah. It I is a slow Islamification which are you know what what you called a stealth jihad is going taking place right now. And um I and coming back to Europe just for a minute. Uh there was a report of 70 73 pages or so uh prepared for the French government on the infiltration of western the sorry French institutions uh by the Muslim Brotherhood. It's it's amazingly detailed account of how the they are slowly very subtly is from the down you know from the down upwards not the it's not imposed from top it's coming up through

21:27 through groundwork very careful what they call m municipal jihad um in in taking institutions, schools, associations, uh, uh, and so on. So, and what's happening in in Europe in some states have uh designated the Muslim Brotherhood as as a terrorist organization. I think they more should I should think that this should be taken up at the uh federal level whether whether uh the other states will follow I don't know but it's very worrying that you got several members of Congress who for a start there many are anti-semmites and then they are pro pro-Islamic they're apologists of Islam so yes it's a danger for the USA as

22:33 Yeah, it's it's uh I I as you may know, Ted Cruz and and other Republicans held uh hearings on the Muslim Brotherhood couple weeks ago and the Democrats boycotted it. So, there you have it. Um civilizational suicide. Um somebody I want to make sure we get some questions in from the audience. Somebody asked, "Why can't we declare Islam as a political system?" Yeah, we should. Right. Right. Then we it gets it sort of protects itself by calling itself a religion. So and Americans are reluctant to to to criticize to take on another religion.

23:16 It's not in their traditions. You know, they're very tolerant. They've always been very tolerant. Um and so it makes it very life much more difficult indeed. How they would they would make it completely political. I don't know. I don't know how you would do that. What the mechanism would be. Um yeah, I'm not I'm not a activist in that sense. Yeah. Um somebody asked it was a very lengthy question. I'm going to shorten it and just basically summarize. Do you believe that there are moderate Muslims?

23:51 Well, I I'm often asked I used to think my my favorite way of putting it was Islam itself there may be moderate Muslims but uh the Islam itself is not moderate. So making this distinction others have been more cynical say the moderate Muslim is the one who has run out of ammunition. Um, so I tend to think that the mo so-called moderate Muslims are they are muddying the waters. They're there shielding, but maybe inadvertently shielding Islam from criticism. That's a way of Islam gets away with it. gets a clean clean path, you know, free pass on all these issues. Uh same for example, they they were they were implicitly uh um implicated in in in the Holocaust

24:57 during the Second World War. So, but but nobody nobody talks about it, you know, it is taboo. Uh so moderate Muslims don't help at all. In fact, I I know that um my friend and your maybe your boss, I don't know, Daniel Pipes has this distinction. I don't think it helps anymore. I I think it I used to think that way as well. We need to have a way of designating people who might well be on our side. But the it doesn't help. It really doesn't help. It has a a detrimental effect.

25:39 Um thank you. Someone is asking um for do you do you make any distinction between Islam as a civilization or classical religion and Islamism as a modern phenomenon? No. No. Certainly not. I I in my book uh I wrote a book called um the Islam and Islamic terrorism and that makes it clear that there is no such distinction. Um and then somebody's asked an interesting question about um whether you can compare the goals and systems of Islam with the goals and systems of communism. And that if you could make such a comparison, you might be able to sort of reach the masses um and have non-Muslims begin to understand how serious u the the threat that it's posing to the west. um you know both are totalitarian political um Islam is purportedly religious uh but both but both pose national threats to the west what are your thoughts on that

26:42 yeah what was the beginning of this that that should non-Muslims begin to seriously compare the goals and systems of Islam with the goals of communism gold what's what does he mean by a golden system goals goals and systems of communism versus of Islam the goal the end the oh the goals I'm sorry yeah yes yes absolutely the the um many have compared in my book I go through a list of this in fact many have compared communism to Islam totalitarian system and even as fascism I I compared it Islam to fascism taking as my blueprint the article by Ombberto Eko in the New York review books where he defines 14 features which uh the demarcate if you like which uh single out

27:48 which are essential conditions for fascism and I I I argue that all 14 [clears throat] conditions are applicable and are present in Islam. So it is a passive system where [music] the women are in you have to follow the leader and so on. All the basic principles of fascism are present in in So is it safe then to say that Islam um cannot coexist with western Absolutely no. There's no way. There's no way that they can totally incompatible. It says every single principle right Islam is the sovereignty belongs to God whereas in in British American constitution the sovereignty belongs to the people it's a it's a magnificent creation the constitution American constitution it's

28:50 a human product and uh you know it has got the the basis of human rights right there in in the um bill of rights for example which does not exist in Islam. So yeah so unfortunately we have run out of time. I wish we had longer because you're always so insightful and and and again I thank you for your bravery um and doing what you do. And this is your your book again your most recent book on Church Hill secular creed. I I recommend it to everybody watching as well as all of your other works. Uh please do follow Iben's work. Very important. Thank you all for joining. I hope we see you on Wednesday afternoon at 3M with uh Ashley Perry for Israel Insider and Iben. Thank you a million.

29:42 Thank you very much, Lori. Thank you.